--- Log opened Sat Jul 18 00:00:00 2026
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01:24 < thrig> gemini://thrig.me/blog/2026/07/18/valid-ip-address.gmi
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02:31 < dg> ninjin: for signal https://github.com/opencrew-tech/openbsd-electron has signal-desktop, although I've not tried it
02:32 < ninjin> dg: Thank you, will have a look.
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04:32 < commandk> sooo.. i was preparing for first major release upgrade and noticed i hadnt installed available firmware so thought i should do that. ran `fw_update -av`. started failing in the middle of it because full / (now at 106%) and /tmp (eventually cleare after command finished)
04:32 < commandk> seems like it filled up relatively early and failed most of the attempted writes
04:33 < commandk> any advice on how to safely recover space and make sure system not borked?
04:33 < commandk> my / was autoprovisioned by installation at a modest 164MB
04:34 < commandk> this is for headless system so prob dont need the amdgpu
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09:01 < ursa> For openssh, I would expect UserKnownHostsFile=none to work like UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null according to https://man.openbsd.org/ssh_config#UserKnownHostsFile but I see different behavior https://bpa.st/T3HA why?
09:01 < ursa> In other words, I can't make UserKnownHostsFile=none work, I have to use UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null
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09:21 < IcePic> ursa: seems like the effect is all but the same, except /dev/null is an empty file you can open, and (try to) read from that does not contain a hostkey entry for localhost (obviously) whereas none means don't-even-try 
09:23 < ursa> Which leads to being unable to use `ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=none $server`
09:23 < ursa> But `ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null $server` works.
09:24 < ursa> I'm not sure if I'm trying to use the options wrong. I want to connect to some server without caring at all about the keys (they are ephemeral, and change all the time, and it's on a secure connection already).
09:24 < ursa> UserKnownHostsFile=none is documented, UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null is kind of an abuse of /dev/null
09:28 < ursa> Is there a way of achieving what I want, while using documented options and documented option values?
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10:00 < rIMpossible> Today I tried 'failsafe' xenodm session (I did never in the last 40 years of using X Window). After logging in normal, it starts a default session of CDE instead of the last saved one.
10:01 < rIMpossible> Has anyone else experienced this problem with a session saving desktop environment (LXDE, XFCE, ...) ?
10:01 < rIMpossible> s/problem/behaviour
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10:21 < byteskeptical> ursa: may have to also set GlobalKnownHostsFile=none
10:23 < ursa> Makes no difference in my testing.
10:25 < IcePic> I was also thinking that, the user-file might be or not be an override for the global, but if you say "i dont want to have a userfile" then it might fall back to the global one which has entries (possibly) but which do not match
10:25 < byteskeptical> could also just use UpdateHostKeys=yes
10:26 < byteskeptical> and not worry about it after accepting it once
10:27 < ursa> That would progressively slow down connections as the known hosts file grows unbounded.
10:27 < ursa> This is for connecting to virtual machines, they are ephemeral and numerous.
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10:38 < byteskeptical> ? not if you use -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null in conjunction
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10:40 < ursa> The point is to use UserKnownHostsFile=none not UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null :)
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10:43 < byteskeptical> no sure what your trying to achieve then 
10:43 < ursa> I'm trying to use the documented value for the UserKnownHostsFile option.
10:43 < byteskeptical> to do what?
10:44 < ursa> To not use a known_hosts file.
10:44 < byteskeptical> that's not what the option does though...
10:44 < ursa> It says "A value of none causes ssh(1) to ignore any user-specific known hosts files."
10:45 < byteskeptical> yes it doesn't say it disables any/all host key checking
10:45 < byteskeptical> just ignores the user specific ones
10:46 < ursa> I'm starting to see what you mean.
10:46 < ursa> Does it attempt to update the global hosts file then?
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10:47 < ursa> Because even `ssh -F none -o UserKnownHostsFile=none -o GlobalKnownHostsFile=/dev/null localhost` does not work.
10:47 < byteskeptical> I suspect it will check against the global but not sure it will allow a user to update the global one without additional permissions
10:47 < rIMpossible> IgnoreUserKnownHosts in sshd_config(5) is - IMHO - what you want
10:48 < rIMpossible> Default = no, you want to set to yes
10:48 < ursa> That's the sshd option, I'm looking at the ssh options.
10:49 < byteskeptical> either way it won't disable host key checking which is what I think you actually trying to achieve
10:49 < ursa> "command-line: line 0: Bad configuration option: ignoreuserknownhosts"
10:50 < ursa> byteskeptical: yes, I'm trying to disable host key checking, by using documented values to documented options.
10:50 < byteskeptical> I don't know if you can avoid the check altogether pretty sure it baked into the protocol
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10:50 < byteskeptical> best you can do is automated the acceptance and point it to a location that won't grow (your other concern)
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10:52 < IcePic> /dev/null will not grow much even if written to
10:52 < byteskeptical> or run a patched version
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10:57 < rIMpossible> I am not a ssh/sshd genius, but for me it sounds, that if this would be possible, this could be possibly a security flaw, if an ordinary user could override this setting
11:00 < IcePic> rIMpossible: don't ever look at how people run ansible, its all of this, all the time
11:03 < sibiria> ansible is great when you stop at letting the node run solely off of sshd instead of a billion python scripts. that's when it gets gruesome quickly
11:03 < sibiria> aka "agent-less" ansible
11:04 < rIMpossible> I know, leaving the comfort zone is a holy effort ;)
11:06 < sibiria> my perspective is that ansible as an agent on every target node is a heavy setup, when so much of the work can be achieved only using ssh and no agent
11:07 < byteskeptical> you can also have the process creating your vm's (ansible) save the host keys to a known location and keep the check or use something like StrictHostKeyChecking=accept-new at least
11:10 < byteskeptical> I think a lot of people try to breeze by configuration of these types of tools with hacky work-arounds in the name of automation telling themselves it doesn't matter
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11:28 < blazinghell> hi all
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12:11 < blazinghell> hi all
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14:16 < polarian> IcePic: long time no see, will you be in brussels this year?
14:16 < polarian> (for EBC)
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14:21 < IcePic> polarian: yes
14:21 < polarian> nice!
14:21 < IcePic> I'd be happy to meet you again
14:21 < IcePic> if you can find a secret enough tunnel under the waters or so. ;)
14:21 < polarian> sure you will see me running around like a headless chicken again this year :p
14:22 < polarian> after going to... too many conferences at this point, I actually have become increasingly complacent on going to talks
14:22 < polarian> I went to a conf last weekend, and I made it to 2 talks
14:22 < polarian> then got caught in a 4 hour discussion on security :p
14:23 < polarian> then was offerred to go for drinks... and then the conf was over :p
14:23 < polarian> I heard many people tell me "conferences are for meeting and working with others", "talks are for the recordings"
14:28 < IcePic> the Halltrack of the EBC is the best
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16:50 < izder456> could people test or OK my desktop-installer and auto-admin ports in the mailing list? i would really like these to be merged to the tree.
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18:38 < mischief> task failed successfully
18:38 < mischief> tried to run llama.cpp on my r9700 with openbsd, and amdgpu hung :(
18:42 < thrig> https://www.savagechickens.com/2015/04/a-cautionary-tale.html
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18:58 < lts> I tried a llama (Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-GGUF:Q4_K_M) and it happily told me that my circuit will explode if GND pins are connected to each other. Not fearing for Skynet yet
18:58 < lts> You're better off without
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19:16 < mischief> a3b model is fast, but not exactly smart
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19:37 < lts> None of them have smartness, but some have more checks than others
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19:56 < commandk> I'm not able to acquire DHCPv6 address as client on updated 7.9  using either of slaacd, dhcpcd, dhcp6relayd .
19:56 < commandk> on updated 7.9 
19:59 < commandk> They all log their own variants of `Permission denied` as they try. Same when daemons in foreground as root. Currently I belive  this might be privsep issue? I found some similar past reports on each on openbsd mailing list and similar dhcpcd upstream report for freebsd which hinted at need for recompilation but nothing conclusive 
20:00 < mischief> commandk: might be pf blocking the packets
20:00 < commandk> at this point im only trying to acquire and use a single address on single interface as client so not acting as a router or anything fancy like that
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20:02 < cgnarne> there's no dhcpv6 in base. only prefix delegation
20:04 < mischief> cgnarne: commandk said they used dhcpcd, which can do IA_NA
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20:06 < cgnarne> ah, right. sorry
20:06 < commandk> mischief: it would be nice if that was the case but at least i believe it to pass thru traffic and nothing shows up under `tcpdump -nvi pflog0`. but nothing shows up there at all so probably not looking for blocked packets the right way. got `set loginterface egress` in pf.conf. for example dhcpcd when running debug in foreground i can see it
20:06 < commandk> logging ``ps_root_recvmsg: Permission denied error right after `multicasting SOLICIT6`
20:09 < lts> Another IPv6 success story :-) 
20:10 < mischief> commandk: `log` has to actually appear on the rule which does the pass/block
20:10 < commandk> cgnarne supposedly since 7.9, `inet6 autoconf` should support this via slaacd (or maybe SLAAC doesnt count as dhcpv6?) either way yeah im looking at all reaonable options 
20:10 < mischief> you can always pfctl -d
20:10 < mischief> there's pretty much only one reason EPERM appears on socket io, and it's when pf is involved and blocks
20:12 < cgnarne> commandk: slaac is not dhcpv6 
20:12 < commandk> it WAS pf since yeah doing that makes it work. thank you mischief. now turned it back on and gotta figure out how to debug and fix these rules
20:13 < cgnarne> Just allow all of icmp6
20:14 < WrezHole> commandk: pass out quick inet6 all keep state
20:14 < WrezHole> pf.conf
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20:15 < cgnarne> No. that breaks neighbor discovery
20:15 < commandk> hm, i already have `pass out quick keep state`; would that be applying to ipv4 only?
20:16 < cgnarne> you also need to allow incoming icmp6 
20:17 < WrezHole> and some icmp6-type 
20:17 < cgnarne> No. this will only lead to pain later
20:18 < cgnarne> do not filter icmp6 
20:19 < WrezHole> i do but in test skip that part
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20:20 < mischief> i'm no expert and have ipv6 off right now but my historical rules i believe worked were
20:20 < mischief> pass in log on egress inet6 proto icmp6 all
20:20 < mischief> pass in log on egress inet6 proto udp from fe80::/10 port dhcpv6-server to fe80::/10 port dhcpv6-client no state
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20:20 < commandk> i thought  i had appropriate rules but obv not. will see if i can pastelink pfconf. for now added log to all block statements
20:21 < mischief> (you should replace egress with your interface name, or macro)
20:21 < WrezHole> udp port 547 to any port 546 
20:23 < cgnarne> ipv6 needs working icmp6. why do you insist on breaking it?
20:24 < lts> IPv6 is great
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20:30 < commandk> pf.conf: https://paste.gentoo.zip/OB82DAqI
20:32 < commandk> aware there are  redundant and overlappinf rules in there, ive actually been running those separately but leaving them to show what i tried
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20:33 < mischief> doesn't urpf-failed make antispoof/'martians' table redundant or am i missing something
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20:34 < IcePic> mischief: martians and rpf is not necessarily the same at all
20:34 < IcePic> urpf is about stuff coming in on the wrong interface, martians is usually rfc1918-networks that you don't expect from the ISP side of a fw or so
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20:36 < mischief> right so you block `from urpf-failed` - in what case does that not make redundant the usual 'martians' table on your wan side? there won't be any route so urpf check will fail, blocking it
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20:40 < commandk> urpf-failed / antispoof: you migh be right; i cargo-cuted those
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20:41 < mischief> was more of a general question, not really about your rules
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20:44 < commandk> if i understand that part now, i guess it might be redudandant depending on setup? in common case like here with one wan and one lan where all the rfc1918 are on lan and rest is 0.0.0.0/0 it is but we might have more lan interfaces with different subnets and then it makes a difference
20:45 < commandk> and maybe theres a "defense in depth" argument to having both enabled still
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20:48 < mischief> the rule for urpf is really simple, so simple that it can be hard to miss the implications at first glance https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3704/#section-2.2
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20:49 < mischief> (i assume pf urpf-failed is strict reverse path forwarding, as per the rfc but i should really go check)
20:52 < mischief> it is in fact the same meaning as the rfc, afaict
20:52 < commandk> aha! now i learned about how to read /var/log/pflog and there is nothing recent from when i was trying now but looks like there is gunsmoke from older attempt previous attempt:
20:52 < commandk> rule def/(ip-option) block out on em0: :: > ff02::1:ffxx:xxx: HBH icmp6: multicast listener report
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20:58 < commandk> my next excercise will be some unholy udp nat46 so i want to understand whats going on here before getting lost in that  x) thans for the pointers so far, very helpful!
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22:01 < sadtux> vjt> troll level is over 9000 sadtu
22:01 < sadtux> bye bye neo nazis
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 19 00:00:44 2026