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03:57 < echelon> was sysv_sem patched prior to 7.9 release?
04:01 < echelon> i don't see any sysv related patches in syspatch
04:05 < echelon> sysctl kern.version shows that the build date of my kernel was may 6th, but the commit for the fix was on may 22 https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/1957873d2063db11dab780eca75b5e629d1e838d
04:05 < echelon> how do i confirm if this is patched in the kernel?
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04:11 < cgnarne> https://www.openbsd.org/errata79.html
04:12 < cgnarne> number 005
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04:21 < thrig> but who is number one
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04:25 < cgnarne> i am not a number, i'm a free man!
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04:27 < thrig> hopefully not a use after free
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06:08 < dettus> @vortexx: Thank you so so much!
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06:10 < dettus> Now I need someone to OK them. :) 
06:10 < dettus> (My FPGA-related ports, I mean...)
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07:35 < echelon> cgnarne_: why doesn't it show up when i run syspatch -c? https://pastee.dev/r/gDR0LQ77
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07:36 < echelon> all i get are 002_smtpd and 003_vmd
07:37 < echelon> woah, it was the local mirror
07:37 < echelon> sorry for the trouble
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08:08 < jfsimon1981> Hi good morning everyone
08:09 < IcePic> o7
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08:11 < echelon> hello
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08:31 < Minall> gm
08:31 < zelest> mo mo
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10:26 < vortexx> dettus: you're welcome
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11:01 < sonya> hello.. is it possible for "pledged/unveiled" process (which is running as nonprivileged user) to use SIOCGIFMTU or/and SOCK_DGRAM calls? they're not mentioned in $ man 2 pledge.. thanks!
11:02 < sonya> if it runs as root - all is fine.. or am i missing smth?
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11:04 < IcePic> sonya: it depends on the pledges made, as long as you are allowed to do networking I assume you also could set parameters. Or you just do it before tight pledging
11:09 < sonya> IcePic: thanks. pledge have "inet" but i don't see mentioned above calls in allowed groups.. split code at points "before-after" pledge is an option, yes..
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11:44 < IcePic> sonya: its not only an option, but also how much of pledge and unveil is meant to be used. Do "dangerous" stuff upfront, change to strict mode and do the majority of the work later in that "sandbox"
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12:06 < riad> hi guys, anybody here read the "unix and linux system administration handbook"?
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12:06 < riad> (5th ed.)
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12:08 < riad> started reading it, very enjoyable
12:08 < riad> but i noticed its somethimes quite "biased"
12:14 < riad> small snipped from the book: https://bpa.st/KJIQ
12:15 < riad> what for crap
12:17 < riad> saying ciscos ASA is less complex, more reliable and more secure is crap
12:17 < riad> the book sometimes feels like reading an advertisement
12:20 < IcePic> riad: yeah, its kind of true and not true at the same time
12:20 < IcePic> if someone is running a full desktop env and it has tons of ports open for stuff like printer sharing and whatever, then its sort of true, also if you run checkpoint on winders like they mention, then I would also assume it would be less secure.
12:22 < IcePic> or if the user of said desktop env has applied random advice from the internet to open ports so "stuff" work, but its kind of buried as hidden assumptions
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12:23 < riad> IcePic: they were not talking about host-based firewalls, but dedicated machines for only that purpose
12:25 < IcePic> riad: I was thinking of the start, "we don't recommend using a workstation as a firewall"
12:25 < riad> IcePic: also, no desktop env or any other things, they mention in the book that "even with meticulous hardening, full-fledged operating systems are to complex to be fully trustworty"
12:25 < IcePic> yeah, so in obsd terms, full-fledged would possibly be "small fw" vs "full install of all kinds of stuff"
12:25 < riad> looking at the cve index for both cisco's ASA and openbsd gives me another picture
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12:26 < IcePic> I dont think they ever considered openbsd when writing that one. Smells like "written in the times when linux came with pop2d enabled by default, around redhat 4.x/5.x times in the 90s"
12:27 < riad> its the 5th edition, came out 2017
12:27 < riad> is recommended in openbsd.org/books.html
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12:28 < IcePic> sure, but that text may be left in there since the first edition, which came out in 1995
12:28 < riad> IcePic: i would even choose a linux machine over some "dedicated network equipment"
12:28 < IcePic> or one of the editions in between, and they did not update that info
12:29 < riad> ciscos products are hilariously bloated and overly complex, esp the newer ones
12:29 < riad> IcePic: either that or they still stand by it
12:30 < riad> both sucks for the so called "bible" of sysadmins
12:31 < sonya> cisco tend to do the job they're made for.. they differ, but works.. price - is a matter of other kind for me.. though my routers run obsd :)
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12:34 < riad> sonya: yea, they may be referencing "next gen" firewall features, ie DPI, NBAR, etc
12:35 < riad> but then the term "securiy" becomes ambiguous, as the threat models differ
12:35 < riad> which they sadly do not mention :(
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13:36 < thrig> some cisco routers used to have a "fixup smtp" feature that would correct EHLO to HELO and thus break ESMTP
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16:11 < echelon> i have a big problem with this local cache mirror of cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD
16:14 < echelon> does syspatch have a local cache or something?
16:16 < echelon> https://pastee.dev/r/lGerNY8E
16:16 < vortexx> you're going to have to be a bit clearer: are you trying to set up a local mirror of the cdn site? Is syspatch not working when you do that (and you have /etc/installurl pointed at your local mirror)?
16:16 < echelon> ^
16:16 < echelon> it works, but it only has a cache of the 002_smtpd and 003_vmd patches
16:17 < vortexx> how are you downloading?
16:17 < echelon> downloading what?
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16:17 < vortexx> the syspatches
16:18 < mischief> i see all of them thru 007 at https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/syspatch/7.9/amd64/, but maybe it's just the local mirror
16:18 < mischief> my advice: pick a different mirror
16:18 < vortexx> I don't use the cdn, I use a close by mirror to get the contents I need to put on my local lan mirror
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16:18 < echelon> i don't think the cdn is the problem, the cdn has all the updates
16:19 < vortexx> https://termbin.com/tqn6 this is what I use to pull the syspatches in
16:19 < echelon> i'm trying to troubleshoot why syspatch isn't pulling down the updates when using my local mirror
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16:22 < vortexx> did you try doing it manually with ftp?
16:22 < vortexx> or whatever tool you use to download
16:22 < vortexx> also tcpdump the traffic
16:23 < echelon> vortexx: yeah, if i ftp the tgz directly, it works
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16:26 < dominick72_97> wtf 2017 was 9 years ago
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16:28 < vortexx> echelon: so what are you doing for it not to work?
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16:30 < echelon> i have /etc/installurl configured to https://artifactory.local/artifactory/openbsd which is a local mirror of https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/
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16:57 < echelon> looks like it was a caching issue, after cache was cleared it started working
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17:06 < echelon> so why does pkg_add retrieve the full index.html file, but syspatch only retrieves the SHA256.sig
17:06 < echelon> why the divergence in behavior?
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17:11 < mischief> there's no SHA256.sig for packages, for starters
17:11 < echelon> yeah
17:12 < echelon> would it be just too big to maintain?
17:12 < mischief> it's not needed
17:12 < mischief> openbsd packages signatures are stored in the gzip comment field
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17:29 < vortexx> syspatches are stored the same way the sets are, and verified the same way. Packages are run in a different way
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17:39 < lumidify> Is there any documentation for the "DEBUG" variable in Makefiles? I just tried to compile one of my programs on OpenBSD again after only using it on Linux for a while, and the build failed because I had a variable named "DEBUG" in the Makefile. When DEBUG is set, its contents are added to CFLAGS for some reason. If you create a really basic Makefile that just prints ${CFLAGS}, you get "-02 -pipe", but 
17:39 < lumidify> if DEBUG is set to 0, for instance, you get "-02 -pipe 0". I'll just rename the variable in my Makefile, but I haven't been able to find any documentation whatsoever on this variable and why it's added to CFLAGS.
17:40 < thrig> mk.conf(5)
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17:48 < lumidify> Is mk.conf automatically included by *all* Makefiles? I was under the impression this is only relevant when writing Makefiles that include bsd.own.mk.
17:50 < thrig> ktrace might show what is reading what
17:50 < Bradipo> I believe it is.
17:51 < sibiria> Make doesn't reel the file in itself. you need to include it in your Makefile
17:51 < Bradipo> Oh, so it's read if you .include <bsd.own.mk>
17:52 < Bradipo> The man page, mk.conf(5) details it.
17:53 < lumidify> Ah, I see that /usr/share/mk/sys.mk is apparently included in all Makefiles, and that includes a line which adds ${DEBUG} to ${CFLAGS}.
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19:27 < echelon> vortexx: thanks for the clarification
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19:28 < echelon> btw when doing a sysmerge, i'm guessing when it prompts if you want to install the temporary file, it actually means to ask if you want to install the distro-maintained file?
19:29 < echelon> the language may need tweaking for clarity
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19:33 < echelon> vortexx: what was the reason behind fw_update not honoring /etc/installurl ?
19:33 < vortexx> fw_update gets its files from a specific server iirc
19:34 < sibiria> it always fetches from firmware.openbsd.org unless you tell it with an argument
19:35 < echelon> i mean, why didn't they just create a subdir under /pub/OpenBSD like with syspatch/
19:40 < echelon> licensing?
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19:50 < quinq> Maybe because it's unnecessary big (no idea) and they don't want to impose this upon mirrors
19:53 < echelon> it's not that big compared to packages/
19:57 < echelon> google says it's due to > strict licensing restrictions and legal compliance
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20:09 < cgnarne> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=155926005507475&w=2
20:13 < cgnarne> the answer is lawyers
20:14 < cjs> In the words of the American '70s and '80s rock band The Eagles, quoting Shakespeare: "Might as well face it. Old Billy was right. Let's kill all the lawyers. Let's kill 'em tonight." 
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20:31 < oldlaptop> really the only reason for fw_update to exist in the first place
20:33 < thrig> certain vendors have been shy about sharing docs (probably don't have any) or the code (doubtless a dumpster fire)
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20:46 < qbit> til lftp
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20:47 < quinq> lftp is se most reasonable sftp client
20:48 < echelon> it even does bittorrent?
20:48 < qbit> right? crazy
20:50 < quinq> haha
20:50 < echelon> i'm guessing it's not meant for seeding, just download only
20:51 < quinq> “Seeding is also supported.”
20:51 < echelon> so it runs as a daemon?
20:52 < quinq> Doesn't need to run as a daemon for sending data
20:52 < sibiria> run it in tmux
20:54 < echelon> oh, it has a shell/console prompt that you can keep running
20:55 < quinq> Yes, it's an interactive client
20:55 < quinq> You can queue commands in the background
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21:04 < jab> odd question, are there some programs that use "setrlimit" to set their maximum amount memory ?  Is this a common practice for programs to set?
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21:05 < Bradipo> I know that softlimit (from daemontools) uses setrlimit.
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21:05 < Bradipo> In this case, softlimit will set a limit and then call another program.
21:05 < Bradipo> See https://cr.yp.to/daemontools/softlimit.html
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21:06 < Bradipo> There are a few programs in /usr/bin that use setrlimit, though not many.
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23:12 < vortexx> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=178475137148198&w=2 this OVH "gateway outside of subnet" IPv6 issue has cropped up again, I can't remember how this got fixed last time
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23:18 < echelon> marc.info 504 gateway time-out
23:19 < sibiria> it's rather messy in openbsd (compared to linux where the routes just work out automatically)
23:20 < sibiria> you need to add the route manually with ifconfig, with -link -cloning. after that you can set it as default gateway
23:24 < sibiria> it's described in a paragraph in route(8) man page i think
23:24 < sibiria> or ifconfig? i can't recall
23:26 < sibiria> ah, add it with route(8)
23:26 < sibiria> there's an example on it in the man page for route
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23:36 < vortexx> thanks, just emailed misc@ and the OP with that example
23:37 < vortexx> (why some hosting providers go with this solution for gateways on IPv6 I do not know... )
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23:43 < thrig> "linux supports it, so..."
23:44 < sibiria> strikes me as some network schema of olde, from the early days of ipv6 deployments. but i don't know anything about networking so maybe it's in fact the new hot thing
23:51 < vortexx> yeah that's a good theory
23:51 < vortexx> and once you've done initial config of your hosting company, why change? 
23:55 < thrig> linux folks also use 0.0.0.0 to connect to localhost which don't work too good on openbsd
23:55 < dg> I don't think it's for legacy reasons, often it's because doing ndp for a /64 can exhaust the router/host's resources if someone scans it, so it's easier to route, but they also don't want to add more IPs / subnets for that
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 23 00:00:49 2026