--- Log opened Tue Jul 28 00:00:11 2026
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01:26 < broke> Hello, I've read about a bit on the openbsd FAQ pointed by an article about wifi cards, and I still unable to figure out the most supported wifi card (mini pci-e preferably) for openbsd. Could someone point me to the correct mailing list post or perhaps and answer?
01:27 < broke> an* answer
01:28 < pardis> I'm not sure "most supported" is a sensible thing to ask for, but most Intel cards work well since they've long been in ThinkPads
01:31 < broke> I've had a lot of issues with my iwn(4) (for Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300). As in well the if restarts sometimes, and sometimes even thought the wifi if is still on, it for some reasons doesn't stop addressing... something is wrong, If anyone could point me to the right direction on this.
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01:32 < broke> s/doesn't/just/
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01:33 < pardis> have you ruled out a hardware problem? I'm not sure what you mean by restarts, but if by that you mean it is detaching and reattaching, it doesn't sound like an OpenBSD problem
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01:33 < pardis> does another OS work well on the same hardware?
01:34 < broke> yes, no problems like that at all.
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01:44 < dg> first step is to ifconfig iwn0 debug, then you should get a few more messages in dmesg at least
01:46 < broke> oh thank you for that
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02:37 < broke> dg: I got the logs for it when the problem happens it starts a background scan for SSIDs and connects to it, when its already I think supposed to be connected. It is happening right now
02:38 < broke> I cannot paste the whole log because it has SSID names and stuff
02:38 < broke> n
02:38 < broke> iwn0: begin background scan
02:39 < broke> iwn0: authentication timed out for X
02:39 < broke> *finds my home AP*
02:39 < broke> then connects to it? when it should be already connected
02:40 < broke> It happened 4 times in a row now, damn
02:48 < dg> broke: is the ap on multiple channels? e.g. a 2.4GHz and 5Ghz one? it could be trying to change channel
02:48 < dg> sometimes the same AP can have different configurations on different channels too, so it's possible a firmware/driver incompatibility
02:48 < broke> ahhhhhhhhhhh
02:49 < dg> when it works, get the working bssid from ifconfig, then do ifconfig iwn0 bssid ...
02:49 < dg> see if that keeps it on the same channel and AP (if you have multiple)
02:49 < dg> that is obviously a bit of a workaround but at least gives an idea what might be playing up (this does seem like a driver bug, but fixing older hardware can hard...)
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02:55 < broke> dg: okay, also for that reason, if I want to use the bssid for the one that works, how to make it parmanent in my hostname.iwn0. Sorry I couldn't figure out using the documentation.
02:55 < broke> (manpage I mean)
02:56 < broke> (would it be bssid instead of "join")
02:56 < broke> (or join ESSID bssid BSSID ?)
02:56 < dg> bssid as well as join, basically you can put any ifconfig options in hostname.if
02:57 < broke> I see, thanks
02:58 < dg> although this won't work with joinlist, I tend to have join on each line so I can comment them out easily in hostname.if
02:58 < dg> you'll maybe want to put a commented out "-bssid" in there too to remind you to deconfigure the bssid if you do need to use another network
03:00 < dg> if you can clean up the debug output it would be useful to send a description of the issue and the dmesg output to bugs@
03:00 < broke> I will try that. Thank your for your help.
03:02 < dg> also helpful to include what model AP you're using and any relevant configuration for that
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03:26 < pair0doc> running 7.8 on ppc el I was trying to install cherrytree and AI suggested it was in the ports. AI suggested /usr/ports/deskutils/cherrytree at least in 7.8 that dir does not exist. Is the AI telling me info for 7.9 or is there another suggestion?
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03:32 < mischief> pair0doc: you could just check out the ports tree..?
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03:34 < pair0doc> mischief, I'm newer to OpenBSD; long time linux user and even a more "pure" user of slackware; so not ignorant of commands just some syntax. What do you mean by checking out the ports tree? A previous search found nothing and I ran into errors trying to cross compile it myself.
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03:37 < mischief> pair0doc: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ports/ports.html - but there's not much point, because there is no such port called cherrytree anyway
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03:39 < pair0doc> ty with the aid. I should know better and rtfm before posting a 2nd question. I have a screenshot of the compile errors. Is this a good channel to trouble shoot that in or is another suggested?
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03:44 < mischief> pair0doc: you can try
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04:10 < pair0doc> I'm going to hold off on troubleshooting cherrytree cross compile for now. I found out that ungoogled-chromium is available in the ports and available for powerpc. Yes I will have a modern browser on my g4. LOL
04:10 < pair0doc> I doubt it will load worth beans though.
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04:13 < broke> it barely "works" but it works.
04:13 < broke> that's the kind of experience
04:15 < pair0doc> broke was that on powerpc and how fast a system? I have a dual 500mhz with like a pretty stock video card I think only a 4mb.
04:15 < broke> damn yours is probably 3 times slower than mine.
04:16 < broke> core i5 1st gen here
04:16 < pair0doc> probably what is going to kill me is the video.
04:17 < pair0doc> or that slow eide or sdram.
04:17 < broke> for your machine whatever didn't exist back then doesn't exist for you :P
04:18 < pair0doc> did surf from suckless.org exist. That runs pretty "suckless". LOL :P
04:19 < broke> I think that was just a good effort at a suckless modern web browser.
04:20 < pair0doc> I did notice a more modern webkit in the www. I wondered if surf would behave better with that? has anyone tested? running 7.8
04:20 < pair0doc> (www of ports)
04:20 < broke> never_use_webkit
04:21 < pair0doc> well it is an apple, no wonder it still likes webkit. LOL
04:26 < broke> nonetheless we all suffer with the modern web.
04:26 < pair0doc> the suffering is because no one makes it accessable. Goodness sacks if we were blind or visually impaired.
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13:52 < spakezz> wazzup
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13:53 < spakezz> ayy
13:54 < home_ferre> ayy watch out for the mids if ur not talking on topic
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13:54 < home_ferre> mods*
13:54 < spakezz> oh okay praise openbsd mmh i love simplicity
13:54 < home_ferre> mhhhh yes~
13:54 < spakezz> aight bro
13:54 < spakezz> wanna join #general
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13:55 < home_ferre> better if we go in chat i think
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14:39 < RobbieAB> pair0doc-afk: How can you watch ads if you are blind?!
14:39 < RobbieAB> And I realise I was deep in scrollback... :(
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15:16 < il> you listen to them, RobbieAB 
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15:16 < RobbieAB> il: I think the sarcasm was missed there...
15:17 < RobbieAB> Plus it wouldn't surprise me if the cost-reward analysis says there simply aren't enough blind users to make advertising to them profitable.
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15:52 < izder456> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=178525369100033&w=2 submitted a port of zoitechat, a maintained fork of hexchat
15:52 < izder456> could i get testers and/or OKs?
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16:11 < sibiria> i can give it a run sometime this week
16:12 < oldlaptop> (what's with *that* name?!)
16:12 < izder456> thanks sibiria
16:12 < izder456> oldlaptop: I don't follow
16:13 < oldlaptop> xchat was obvious, hexchat is a kind of odd but still derivation from xchat, I'm wondering how they got to "zoitechat"
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16:14 < izder456> oh i have no idea. that's a good question.
16:15 < oldlaptop> (apparently "zoite" is an abbreviation for "sporozoite", in turn the form of the malaria parasite in which it exists when infecting you)
16:15 < oldlaptop> weird name for an IRC client, but it's definitely a name
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16:20 < thrig> easier to search for that some other things
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16:23 < oldlaptop> Hard to argue with that
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17:56 < apotheon> still using OpenBSD; still happy with it
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18:09 < fro> oh
18:09 < fro> good to know
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18:57 < tux0r> i wonder how many xchat forks the world needs
18:58 < tux0r> shouldn't *someone* wake up one day and say: ok folks, this is the last one?
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19:04 < oldlaptop> Maybe once the GNOME people wake up one day and say: "OK folks, this is the last break-the-whole-world GTK release."
19:04 < oldlaptop> or perhaps someone can fork it as xawchat.
19:05 < quinq> YChat
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19:08 < broke> GTK and QT is sufferable, because they do nothing more than waste resources on giving a more modern experience that makes no ultimate difference in user experience. :(
19:08 < tux0r> the last good gui framework was motif anyway
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19:08 < tux0r> reliable, stable, mature
19:08 < tux0r> <3
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19:10 < oldlaptop> motif's exceptional quality is of course directly responsible for the existence and success of Tk (so that's one concrete good to come from it)
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19:10 < tux0r> probably, except that tk's scripting language is a horrible mess
19:11  * oldlaptop considers that a second obvious anti-fact in a row
19:12 < broke> IIRC, Tk is by far the most popular one used in the last 2 decades.
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19:15 < tux0r> everyone knows that popularity is the most important measurement with software (see also: windows, internet explorer, outlook express).
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20:03 < vortexx> tux0r: when do you consider that motif became mature?
20:05 < tux0r> by the time CDE became the de-facto standard desktop, i reckon
20:06 < tux0r> having some of the leading IT companies pay for software development does wonders for the software's reliability. or well... did, before IT companies were google.
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20:24 < vortexx> tux0r: it seeemd to be and then no one updated beyond v1.4 iirc?
20:25 < vortexx> some eons ago, slashdot interviewed one of the software engineers involved and he stated that compared to gtk or qt the amount of engineering that went into it was enormous (this was like 26 years ago maybe?)
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20:37 < tux0r> which is obvious, to be honest.
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21:16 < tk> tux0r: I am pretty certain microsoft was doing unreliable crap for money long before google turned everything into adware
21:17 < tk> and then there's the Therac-25
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21:18 < Bradipo> Has anyone successfully used client certificate authentication with curl and TLS 1.3 (requiring post-handshake authentication) on OpenBSD?
21:18 < tux0r> microsoft was not a leading IT company when motif was popular
21:19 < tux0r> (yet)
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21:21 < tk> Sure, I'm just saying that people have been writing garbage for money long before google, before microsoft, before motif
21:21 < tk> (not saying motif is a company here)
21:22 < tux0r> sure, i've been writing garbage for ... well, this is my 30th year of writing garbage
21:22 < tux0r> but my software budget is roughly 0 and DEC's/sun's/HP's/... was not
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21:23 < tux0r> higher software budgets _can_ lead to higher quality, and for a time, they did.
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21:54 < mischief> Bradipo: it seems to work here
21:54 < Bradipo> mischief: Interesting... I wonder then if the server that I'm testing against is a problem.
21:55 < Bradipo> When you say "work", I assume you have a server that requires certificate authentication, and negotiates TLS 1.3?
21:55 < Bradipo> I wonder how hard client authentication is with httpd(8)...
21:55 < mischief> Bradipo: i had claude whip up one in python. it just uses the python ssl module and forces tls 1.3, but your issue may be server dependent
21:55 < Bradipo> Well, let me ask this...
21:56 < Bradipo> Oh, python, I was asking about curl.
21:56 < Bradipo> I know that python has an option to enable PHA.  I don't see one for curl.
21:56 < mischief> python is the server. curl as the client.
21:56 < Bradipo> Oh.
21:56 < Bradipo> Let me ask this... does it "require" certificate, or is it opportunistic?
21:57 < mischief> required
21:57 < Bradipo> Right, I suppose I should have said "opportunistic".
21:57 < sibiria> there's no such thing as opportunistic two-way TLS. either it's two-way or it's not
21:57 < mischief> you want to only 'maybe' have a client cert and learn about that somehow server side??
21:58 < Bradipo> That may not be the right term.
21:58 < sibiria> but it is of course possible to serve two completely different paths depending on authentication
21:58 < Bradipo> Where the client can reneogiate.
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21:58 < Bradipo> For example, server is configured to accept clients from a CA, but doesn't "require" them to connect.
21:59 < mischief> looks possible
22:00 < Bradipo> Because TLS1.3 doesn't support renegotiation it doesn't seem possible without PHA.
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22:05 < mischief> Bradipo: why would you need renegotiation? can't you just make a new connection, with or without a cert?
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22:06 < mischief> also, this *does* look possible in httpd
22:07 < mischief> there's an `optional` keyword for `client ca`, and it looks like that would be passed through to fastcgi via TLS_PEER_VERIFY, though i didn't test it.
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22:13 < Bradipo> Yeah, I was looking at httpd.conf(5) and saw the optional as well.
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