--- Log opened Fri Aug 07 00:00:11 2026
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05:33 < cgnarne> oldlaptop: re enshittification of linux-man-pages https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/am0RdPxvbIYUKAL-@devuan/T/#m277b916c39713d644d36a42d82debbff1df6bfc5
05:33 < broke> (web links that make me wanna puke)
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05:36 < cgnarne> the content or the url itself?
05:39 < broke> url itself :\
05:39 < broke> then again were we talking about libc manpages in linux being reasonable?
05:40 < broke> I don't remember linux libc manpages being all that good
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08:23 < rcdecv> Are there any matrix servers in OpenBSD's ports?
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08:59 < _Posterdati_> hi
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08:59 < _Posterdati_> I have an old i5 (Asus K55VD) with a mvidia GEFORCE 610M and intel graphics, could I get X working with it?
08:59 < _Posterdati_> I mean installing OpenBSD 7.9
09:00 < _Posterdati_> thanks
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09:19 < renaud>  rcdecv: there is at least synapse and dendrite
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09:32 < vortexx> Poster: no dmesg on nycbug for that model, so the usual applies. Only intel graphics are likely to work, otherwise things may be ok but don't have your hopes up for wifi
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09:33 < vortexx> rcdecv: synapse is in packages
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09:45 < rcdecv> thanks
09:47 < vortexx> yw
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09:56 < vortexx> rcdecv: dendrite is in there too
10:02 < sibiria> _Posterdati_: i think GeForce 610M will work ok with the legacy driver
10:02 < sibiria> it still functions OK for all those old nvidia GPUs
10:03 < sibiria> (most of them at least)
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13:37 < alem> any vps recommendation that supports openbsd and isnt too expensive?
13:40 < dkeav> vultr
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13:41 < sibiria> netcup is the cheapest
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13:42 < sibiria> some manual contortions necessary but it works well
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13:47 < surrounder> alem: https://openbsd.amsterdam/
13:48 < alem> thank you guys
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14:08 < alem> surrounder: your suggestion looks interesting but i've never heard of this. Do you have any experience with it? how is uptime?
14:09 < surrounder> don't think I ever had an unexpected outage in +/- 3 years
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14:18 < alem> cool, i'll consider using this service then
14:22 < puffybuf> they pretty much all support openbsd, I use linode
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14:48 < kit_ty_kate> is there a way to disable the default b drive swap on boot?
14:48 < sibiria> only by erasing the label
14:49 < sibiria> or, actually, you can disable it by modifying /etc/rc
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14:49 < sibiria> either is a bit hamfisted
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14:52 < puffybuf> partition with 0 swap
14:54 < sibiria> i get the feeling they already have their labels set-up and want to boot without swap for this or that reason
14:54 < kit_ty_kate> i've tried that already but random processes would crash on boot and after boot as a result
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14:54 < sibiria> unfortunately swapctl doesn't care for commented-out fstab entries, so you can't just edit the fstab
14:55 < sibiria> well, you can remove the label entirely from the fstab. i think that will work
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14:56 < kit_ty_kate> the manpage for swapctl says it shouldn't (initial b partition is mounted regardless) https://man.openbsd.org/swapon.8
14:58 < sibiria> it mounts any partition of "sw" type. it just doesn't care whether or not the line is commented-out
14:58 < sibiria> that is, if the man page for swapctl is correct at all
14:58 < sibiria> simple enough to test - just remove the line completely and reboot
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15:02 < kit_ty_kate> you mean like "b partition exists but no entry in fstab"? Would this do anything different than "b partition doesn't exist and no entry in fstab"?
15:02 < kit_ty_kate> (i've tried the latter and would get crashes despite having 4GB of ram)
15:03 < sibiria> assuming the man page for swapctl is correct, it will read /etc/fstab - not the disk labels directly off of the drive - to find labels that have the "sw" (swap) type, and then activate those
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15:04 < sibiria> to swapctl it doesn't matter if the line in the fstab is commented-out or not, so the only possible chance to not have swap activated is to remove the line from /etc/fstab
15:04 < sibiria> other than that, you can comment the 2-3 occasions in /etc/rc where swapctl is called
15:06 < kit_ty_kate> yeah i could try the /etc/rc method, although this sounds pretty hacky
15:06 < sibiria> did you or did you not try deleting the line in the fstab first?
15:07 < sibiria> ignore the fact that your drive has a "b" file system set-up
15:08 < pardis> you cannot disable it in /etc/rc
15:09 < pardis> at least not for the root disk
15:09 < pardis> the kernel will treat that partition specially before init even starts
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15:09 < sibiria> that's terrible. then your only option is to boot into the install kernel and zap the label
15:09 < pardis> the way to disable swap is to not have a b partition
15:10 < pardis> this is an old BSD convention, and trying to swim against the current will only lead to pain
15:10 < pardis> don't use the b partition for anything but swap, and don't have one if you don't want swap
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15:10 < kit_ty_kate> sibiria: as i was saying above, zapping the label leads to random crashes
15:10 < sibiria> kit_ty_kate: not having swap and too little RAM leads to that
15:11 < pardis> what is it you want to achieve?
15:11 < pardis> you're saying you don't want swap and also complaining that you get crashes without swap
15:11 < kit_ty_kate> also yes, removing the line from fstab does nothing (swap is mounted regardless)
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15:11 < sibiria> right out of the box, openbsd's kernel and library relinking can eat up to (and more than) 1 GB of RAM
15:11 < kit_ty_kate> does a fresh install openbsd require more than 4GB of ram to boot?
15:11 < sibiria> no
15:12 < sibiria> but since 7.9 certainly more than 1 GB, unless you disable all the relinking stuff (not recommended)
15:14 < sibiria> the relinking is the hungry part. without it, openbsd will boot fine on 256 mb of RAM
15:14 < kit_ty_kate> well idk then, but with my 4GB of RAM on raspberry pi4 things just keeps crashing despite having ram available
15:16 < uwharrie> "things" and "just keeps crashing" aren't a lot to go on
15:16 < kit_ty_kate> well it's random, 
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15:16 < kit_ty_kate> so it's difficult to describe
15:16 < sibiria> there's for sure a dog buried here somewhere, so to speak
15:17 < sibiria> some of the Arm platforms are finnicky and prone to caveats. godspeed, kit_ty_kate 
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15:18 < kit_ty_kate> :D, i mean i'm fine keeping the swap for now, it's just not too great for the SD card
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15:21 < uwharrie> unless you're hammering the system, it shouldn't get used much and it's generally a bad practice to do anything than boot off the SD card in a Pi
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15:22 < kit_ty_kate> in case anyone wants to reproduce, here's my installation protocol: https://codeberg.org/kit-ty-kate/howto/src/branch/main/openbsd-pi4.md
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15:25 < kit_ty_kate> uwharrie: i know but i prefer it this way, having critical things (usb) sticking out of the machine is a bit annoying when you have a messy setup with lots of cable everywhere
15:26 < kit_ty_kate> plus it's an unusual setup and allows me to find bugs like this one ^^
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15:27 < uwharrie> this sounds like one of those "you broke it, you get to keep the pieces" type issues
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15:33 < pardis> calling this a bug is a bit premature, there isn't really enough information to know if there's a bug or not
15:35 < kit_ty_kate> i meant "issue" more generally
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15:37 < cararemixed> kit_ty_kate: Not sure if related but how is it crashing? Is this like a ulimit style issue or a panic?
15:37 < kit_ty_kate> i'm not exactly sure, i only see SIGKILLs in the logs
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15:38 < kit_ty_kate> lots of "Killed." and "exit code 128" and things like that
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15:38 < kit_ty_kate> 137* sorry
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15:43 < sibiria> that kinda sounds like what mischief dug into a while back
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15:44 < sibiria> i remember having the same problem on my Radxa 3, but with 7.9 the problem suddenly disappeared
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15:47 < cararemixed> If that's from a shell script that means the process it was running got SIGKILL (128+9)... at least that's my guess. Deducing why you got a SIGKILL might be next.
15:48 < sibiria> in my case most things would crash sporadically during disk (SD) i/o
15:50 < cararemixed> Could definitely be something buggy. ulimits are also sometimes a little touchy if you're running near the limits as you won't always trigger the same issue. I'd check those too. It's worth knowing what your working set actually is and check that against limits.
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15:53 < vortexx> it might be older things like cron expecting swap and crashing when it's not available. Someone had this issue on FreeBSD a while ago, maybe OpenBSD is the same?
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15:53 < vortexx> and yes mischief had been testing a single partition disklabel and hitting bugs
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15:54 < vortexx> I have VMs running on 320Mb that can relink the kernel and libs fine but they all have at least 512Mb swap
15:54 < vortexx> (this VM I run my irssi client on is one of those)
15:56 < cararemixed> Right. I think swap is usually good to keep on even if you make it smaller than recommended. 4GB is a lot of memory if you're careful.
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17:31 < puffybuf> all you need to do is get minirootXX.img on a disk and you can install obsd pretty much any VPS provider.
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17:38 < vortexx> it's worth mentionning even if alem isn't here that openbsd.amsterdam do reboot their servers every six months or so to move to the latest release
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19:22 < mischief> kit_ty_kate: as sibiria and vortexx said, i ran into that and debugged it. you need swap, or you need a kernel with the patch i sent to the list.
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19:22 < mischief> (at least on arm64 and riscv64)
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19:24 < mischief> so far, it went unanswered. https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=178487944485345&w=2
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19:30 < kit_ty_kate> neat patch, makes sense from afar. I could try to test it at some point and reply on the list
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19:55 < vortexx> kinda surprising it didn't get any comments, but current doctrine (since 1995 if not before) is OpenBSD has swap I guess.
19:55 < vortexx> (doctrine does evolve sometimes, as in running OpenBSD in a VM, when the virtio drivers (and others) were added)
19:56 < vortexx> (pre that import, officially OpenBSD wasn't supported in a VM)
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22:18 < echelon> is there an equivalent to dm-verity in openbsd?
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22:30 < mischief> echelon: no
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22:38 < echelon> mischief: ok, mtree and signify it is..
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22:44 < AmenBreak> I think I want to try self hosting my own e-mail server and use OpenBSD...  I think it would look good on a resume for entry level Network support jobs
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22:49 < thrig> or a sign of quixotic stubborness
22:49 < alem> AmenBreak: A project I've been wanting to try for some time too, never really tried tho as I've always heard people saying that it can be a painful process
22:50 < Riviera> self-hosting email isn't that easy actually; it'll likely mostly teach you dns. about the job thing: i recommend you do the work and check what you want to work as and what's useful and required for doing so.
22:51 < echelon> AmenBreak: nobody hires openbsd sysadmins
22:51 < AmenBreak> Well, more or less the scope of the task...  I don't even have my certs yet 
22:51 < AmenBreak> But want to get a homelab going
22:51 < echelon> i mean, i would if i was in a hiring position, but most people doing the hiring won't know what it is
22:55 < alem> i'd argue that tinkering on openbsd gives you a better understanding of networking topics than on linux
22:55 < AmenBreak> That's kinda what I figured, because you have to work for it
22:56 < alem> AmenBreak: yeah, on linux many things are abstracted away 
22:56 < alem> and bsd's are just more fun to work with imo
22:57 < AmenBreak> Linux? apt install mailapplication ....  nvim .config/mailapplication/conf.conf...  fill in the blanks but it's mostly already set because the system all runs the same way
22:57 < AmenBreak> Maybe change some firewall settings in iptables... then you're done
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22:57 < AmenBreak> Open or even Free would be quite a bit more involved
22:58 < AmenBreak> But, I guess if by chance you're on linux then they will want to know you can run that
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22:59 < alem> AmenBreak: It's rare to find people hosting stuff without using docker on linux
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23:00 < alem> and i've always found docker quite a pain tbh
23:01 < alem> also iptables are gibberish to me, pf is the main reason i love openbsd
23:01 < thrig> didn't they invent nftables or something
23:02 < alem> yeah it should be the standard now 
23:02 < AmenBreak> yeah, PF is pretty awesome
23:02 < alem> but many packages still use iptables 
23:03 < alem> AmenBreak: yeah I went from knowing absolutely nothing to building simple routers just by reading the pf handbook
23:03 < rcdecv> does pf stand for pare-feu ?
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23:04 < thrig> Puffy Fence
23:04 < sibiria> ParFait
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23:06 < rcdecv> pare-feu is french for firewall btw
23:07 < thrig> maybe OVH forgot to install some in that Strasbourg DC
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23:08 < rcdecv> what happened ?
23:11 < sibiria> angry villagers working for the Umbrella Corporation torched the place
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23:15 < mischief> there was a recent post about some guy at a startup making a pf-to-linux-ebpf translator which was interesting, but it was heavily ai-laden so my eyes glazed over
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23:15 < mischief> pf on linux would certainly be nice if it worked and was stable..
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 08 00:00:12 2026