--- Log opened Sun Aug 09 00:00:14 2026
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00:55 < seninha> phy1729, i already used NATed wireguard with the remote end as gateway. But i only need tunneling for web browsing, and sometimes i want to use the local gateway, so configuring a SOCKS proxy only on the browser would be a solution.
01:01 < BasketCase> also, browsers can be configured to proxy different domains differently
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01:43 < andchi> seninha: did u find a solution, i am actually doing something similar
01:43 < andchi> i just ssh -D ... everytime before using my browser
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02:22 < Skullheadx> Hi I'm trying to install openbsd over serial. I can see the boot> but it doesn't let me type anything
02:22 < Skullheadx> anyone know a solution?
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02:32 < Skullheadx> :O got into the boot menu. the problem was bios was legacy only instead of UEFI
02:32 < Skullheadx> csm
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04:06 < echelon> sorry about the rejoins
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09:06 < vortexx> kit_ty_kate: did you read the /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readmes/soju when you installed the package?
09:07 < vortexx> seninha: squid might be a better solution than SOCKS as a www proxy on your vpn gateway
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09:08 < vortexx> I've used dante in the past but squid is more transparent I find
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12:42 < seninha> vortexx, thanks!
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12:56 < kit_ty_kate> vortexx: yes, but the problem is that it says i should put the key into /etc/ssl/private, which is 0400 root:wheel. Trying to change this will make other parts of openbsd unhappy (i think i had problems with acme mainly)
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16:55 < thfr> Godot freebie on itch.io: https://palesignal.itch.io/8th-floor
16:56 < thfr> meh, wrong channel. Still might be interesting for some...
16:56 < broke> is there a gaming chat on this network?
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18:09 < andchi> i've used the command 'tree' on linux before, is there something equivalent for openbsd?
18:10 < ssm_> andchi: ps -f
18:10 < ssm_> ps(1) is very different from linux and supports format strings
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18:31 < kit_ty_kate> andchi: do you mean sysutils/tree (from ports)?
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18:49 < dwayneiam> Running current on laptop with mangowm. So far so good. Makes me happy.
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18:52 < alem> I wasn't expecting to find so many desktop users here
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18:55 < schalken> broke: there is #openbsd-gaming :)
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19:06 < broke> alem: from what I've read people have been using obsd on desktops since early previous decade.
19:06 < broke> It just matters what kind of hardware you are using.
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19:06 < broke> For a OS that minimises hardware support, you have more work to find
19:07 < broke> oops
19:07 < vortexx> I've had a (multiboot) OpenBSD laptop since 2002
19:07 < broke> find- hardware that work with openbsd
19:07 < broke> that'd make sense, from how I see, if you have the right hardware, you can run openbsd
19:07 < broke> desktops, laptops, whatever
19:07 < alem> makes sense 
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19:08 < echelon> can i do extended display via mst? is that just a xorg/xrandr feature?
19:08 < alem> I've just always seen bsds in general as server os's, i'm being proven wrong 
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19:08 < broke> schalken: thanks for that.
19:09 < TommyC> alem: They're "general purpose" OS's.
19:09 < broke> alem: well BSDs in general or OBSD in general?
19:09 < broke> FreeBSD has been used for the PS since the 90s
19:09 < broke> PlayStation
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19:10 < broke> NetBSD is similar. OpenBSD came for the sake of internet security, and that matters more in servers.
19:12 < alem> never tried netbsd myself
19:12 < broke> Linux was seen as a server OS back in the 00s, not a desktop OS, but people made it possible through FOSS bs.
19:12 < alem> I'm really new to the ecosystem
19:12 < bombuzal> It's like OpenBSD 20 years ago with some fun bits ;p
19:13 < broke> yeah, that's a comment I've heard from somewhere too
19:13 < bombuzal> The code has actually improved a lot in recent years (NetBSD)
19:13 < bombuzal> Not quite OpenBSD quality, but... :)
19:13 < alem> after trying openbsd I'm just installing it everywhere i can lol
19:13 < broke> well obsd is a netbsd fork for a reason
19:13 < bombuzal> indeed
19:13 < alem> it's really simple and i love it 
19:14 < bombuzal> \o/
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19:14 < alem> but on my laptop and desktop i still run linux, maybe i should try running either freebsd or openbsd
19:14 < broke> > Linux people do what they do because they hate Microsoft. We do what we do because we love Unix.
19:15 < broke> The psychology was there since a long time ago, the people were just not that much interested.
19:16 < alem> sometimes i think that using bsds instead of linux makes me less employable if that makes sense lol
19:16 < broke> It is like they don't like something, they switch without knowing what the other OS is and they think it is some magic and start hating on MS. While when I came to OBSD, I started hating Linux because I understood how OBSD is.
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19:16 < sibiria> reminds me of the first ten years of the "smartphone wars", where the only thing Android users had to say about their choice was how much they hated Apple and iPhone users, but iPhone users could talk about all the reasons why they loved iOS over Android
19:16 < sibiria> two very distinct crowds
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19:17 < alem> broke: why do you hate linux tho? I'm running void linux on my laptop right now and it's lovely
19:17 < broke> The reason why I love OpenBSD.
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19:18 < alem> which is? unix philosophy?
19:18 < broke> Well, love it or hate windows or Linux, I still use it, it is bearable, it works just like windows, but it isn't simple, and there is a lot of issues that does not make sense, and a lot of incoherence in every distros.
19:19 < broke> alem: because I love Unix.
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19:21 < alem> fair, I'm not in that phase yet lol, I use and love both because for the first time I feel like the hardware i own is actually mine. If it wasn't for linux i would've never got to understand this world, if that makes sense
19:21 < broke> Most people who come to openbsd from Linux, is probably that they find Linux distros to complicated to use on their lets say personal notebooks I guess.
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19:22 < alem> broke: Yeah i can say i'm one of them maybe, linux can be too abstracted and messy 
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19:22 < alem> main reason i came to bsd is the hate for docker
19:22 < broke> It's a bigger mess than you probably can think.
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19:24 < alem> broke: currently looking for a vim alternative because of how messy the codebase is
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19:24 < broke> vi
19:24 < alem> not really related but kind of
19:24 < broke> you are here at Unix, use vi XD
19:24 < alem> broke: vi is too barebones for me tho
19:24 < broke> just kidding use whatever you want, openbsd has nothing to do with it
19:24 < broke> I use vis, because of sam
19:24 < alem> i'm trying vis
19:24 < broke> oh
19:25 < alem> yeah but it has many subtle changes that hurt my muscle memory 
19:25 < broke> I do my coding on vis, because it has some features that I think most devs should have
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19:25 < broke> you'll get used to it
19:25 < broke> just like vim
19:25 < alem> yeah i probably will but like all my workflow is vim based, i have vim motions on ksh for example
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19:26 < broke> well maybe then keep on using vim.
19:26 < alem> main thing that is tripping me off is the fact that going from insert to visual doesn't move the cursor one char to the left
19:26 < broke> vis isn't supposed to imitate vim.
19:27 < alem> what are those features you were talking about? 
19:27 < broke> *sigh* this is a problem with a lot of software users honestly, why do they think a similar program called Y is supposed to be like X if X already exists?
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19:28 < broke> alem: well, I'm not sure if you can replicate in vim but how you arrange code in tabs
19:28 < broke> I'm too used to vis already to compare to vim now sorry
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19:29 < broke> oh right remembering some, search and replace is much better in vis.
19:29 < broke> the method is different and it makes more sense
19:29 < alem> oh yeah i noticed that
19:29 < broke> you just gotta learn how vis owrks.
19:29 < alem> doesn't use sed syntax
19:29 < broke> works*
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19:29 < broke> it doesn't have sed
19:29 < broke> it uses sam
19:30 < broke> you have to partially learn sam
19:30 < alem> you're making me want to learn it tbh
19:30 < broke> just do 'man vise'
19:30 < broke> alem: you are supposed to learn a new program.
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19:30 < broke> don't do this mistake and think it is vim
19:30 < broke> or a replacement of vim
19:31 < alem> do you use vis for everything coding related? 
19:31 < broke> yes.
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19:31 < broke> for just plain writing I use vi
19:32 < alem> how about lsps, do they work on vis?
19:32 < broke> :(
19:32 < alem> too dumb to code without them im being honest
19:32 < broke> this     is     not     vim
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19:32 < broke> just use vim :\
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19:33 < alem> lsps shouldn't be vim related tho
19:33 < broke> its similar to going to emacs and going "does this have vi mode?"
19:33 < broke> which it does........
19:33 < broke> evil
19:33 < broke> I forgot what LSPs was
19:33 < alem> so you code without lsps that's kind of crazy to me
19:34 < alem> well i guess it depends on the language and tools you use
19:34 < broke> whaaaaaaaat
19:34 < broke> are you really in openbsd right now?
19:34 < alem> well i just use it on my servers
19:34 < alem> im a normie
19:34 < broke> I use man.
19:34 < broke> man 3 libraryname
19:35 < alem> that's just based
19:35 < broke> no that's how people did back in the day
19:35 < broke> and its still a gold standard way of programming
19:35 < broke> OpenBSD certified
19:35 < alem> can i ask what languages you code in? im guessing something like c
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19:36 < broke> C and shell mainly
19:36 < quinq> broke, now people use the plastic standard “Claude, code-me a software that works, and without mistake”
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19:38 < broke> because the software they are probably working on are complicated by nature.
19:38 < broke> Programming really isn't childs play.
19:39 < alem> I can see myself coding in C without an lsp, problem comes with modern languages like python or similar
19:39 < alem> just too many keywords to remember
19:39 < quinq> C is still more modern that those
19:39 < dwayneiam> alem: helix is a nice choice for editor
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19:39 < quinq> Proof, you don't need an LSP
19:39 < alem> dwayneiam: oh yeah i've heard of helix
19:39 < alem> never tried tho
19:40 < broke> quinq: problem is that python is standard for portability.
19:40 < alem> quinq: C is my favorite language, i find it the most fun to code in but for simple tasks it's just too much work and prone to bugs
19:41 < broke> The problem is that the "portability" they mean isn't portability.
19:41 < broke> This makes everything confusing
19:41 < quinq> It's not really confusing
19:41 < broke> Its the difference between, write once compile everywhere vs, write once run everywhere.
19:41 < quinq> They're just lying about it
19:41 < quinq> Like JAVA
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19:42 < broke> well yeah
19:42 < broke> I was really confused at the beginning when I started
19:42 < quinq> Instead of being honest about the advantages and disavantages
19:42 < dwayneiam> alem: supports lsp out of box
19:43 < quinq> Python still hasn't solved the dependency management after 30 years of existence
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19:43 < quinq> Every couple years there's a new system that for sure will solve all previous problems
19:43 < quinq> anyways
19:43 < broke> Python is not the very stable language to use in any case. But some arguments are fair which still is problems not with the language but the programmers themselves.
19:44 < broke> Mainly bit programming.
19:44 < quinq> sure
19:44 < broke> Because there is not bit programming in python, it is portablity TM
19:44 < broke> what an arugment
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19:44 < broke> that is what they all say :(
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19:44 < quinq> And yet it mostly compiles to pyc
19:45 < quinq> If you have the correct environment, otherwise, well it just doesn't work
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19:46 < broke> alem: sorry I didn't notice you said something about C. I'm not really smart myself, but "for simple tasks" it is just too much work? and prone to bugs? would be nice with some explanation :)
19:47 < broke> If you follow the unix philosophy and your program is simple, it should have no bugs.
19:47 < sonofaglitch> Well folks, I looked but couldn't find how to reinstall a default file contained in a pkg pls? As in to the default version as installed by the 'pkg_add "xyz"'. Thanks.
19:48 < broke> run it again
19:48 < alem> dwayneiam: installing it right now, thanks for the suggestion i'm going to check it out 
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19:48 < broke> it should repair it
19:48 < broke> repair as in, it will see the files are there, and see which files are not, and install them
19:49 < broke> there might be multiple in interactive so use -D repair=1
19:49 < broke> I think
19:49 < broke> yes
19:49 < broke> pkg_add -D repair=1 xyz
19:49 < broke> should automatically repair your pkg
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19:49 < broke> man pkg_add for more details
19:50 < alem> broke: mhh an example i can make is a simple program i made recently that just uses rclone to sync my games' save files to a cloud provider via rclone
19:50 < alem> i wrote that in go
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19:51 < broke> write that in shell language.
19:51 < alem> in C that would've been a nightmare
19:51 < broke> it doesn't even seem something you would use C for.
19:51 < broke> I made a simple program for my dwm status bar in C, because I know I can make use of Xlib.
19:51 < quinq> gg
19:53 < alem> broke: I should learn shell scripting yes, don't have much experience with that 
19:53 < broke> seriously?
19:53 < broke> I couldn't possibly live without my 500+ shell scripts in my ~/bin folder
19:53 < broke> all small and made for specific tasks
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19:54 < broke> did you miss the last message?
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19:54 < alem> sorry my irc crashed yes
19:55 < broke> Well, I mean you should already have experience in shell scripts in Unix.
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19:55 < alem> mh well yesn't I know how to run commands, but never looked up posix syntax and common practices
19:55 < broke> I do not like manually doing stuff, so if there is any kind of stuff I might make use of, that uses some program to do it, I write a small shell script and put it in ~/bin/
19:56 < broke> POSIXness does not matter
19:56 < broke> it is your personal shell scripts
19:57 < alem> makes sense
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19:57 < TommyC> Bash and ksh arrays are nice, though.
19:57 < broke> I have a script named f2o in particular, takes one directory of flacs and encodes them to opuses and tar.gz them up.
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19:57 < zcram> no need to gz opuses that are already compressed
19:58 < broke> no, it tars them first
19:58 < broke> then gz
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19:58 < broke> I guess gz is not really required but I did it anyways
19:59 < broke> I have some ffmpeg scripts for some specific tasks as wel
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20:01 < broke> You aren't really meant to waste time on the CLI and write commands repeatedly and such, when you can automate those parts, that is why shell scripts are so useful. It makes life easier. :)
20:02 < broke> And well, I think it also falls under the Unix philosophy
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20:22 < andchi> idk it can sometimes be a black hole of procrastination
20:22 < andchi> but mm u are right in principle, i'm on board
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20:43 < topcat001> With the exception of Windows which despite my efforts I couldn't bear to use, I use multiple unix-like systems, including Linux, Open/FreeBSD. They have their use cases.
20:45 < topcat001> I originally started with IRIX(on O2 and Octane) and a bit of Sun with CDE, before moving to PC hardware and using all the unix-like systems.
20:46 < topcat001> Don't really have a strong dislike for any, although I greatly appreciate OpenBSD and what it represents.
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20:50 < topcat001> Recently I have been using the Genode/SculptOS microkernel system as a test/demo for a secure web browsing setup. It's quite interesting!
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22:23 < ssm_> vi(61866) in calloc(): write to free mem 0xd1d0c4afa80[112..119]@896 :( :( :(
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22:25 < fro> ok
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22:34 < broke> what's the context, I was not here, and I want to know :)
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22:38 < oldlaptop> There isn't really any.
22:38 < fro> ^
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22:39 < broke> oh ok
22:39 < oldlaptop> I guess vi has a bug? It probably has some bugs.
22:39 < oldlaptop> (Presumably rewriting it in rust would magically fix all of them, and there wouldn't be bugs anymore.)
22:40 < broke> (that might be true)
22:40 < dwayneiam> After hibernation my laptop touchpad stops working. It has worked in past after hibernation using X.
22:40 < oldlaptop> Especially not on the machines that it doesn't run on anymore, because rust doesn't run on them.
22:41 < oldlaptop> dwayneiam: That would probably be a bug report - but it needs a whole lot more detail.
22:41 < broke> Well the entire Linux kernel will have rust in every corners and most people might just use FreeBSD and pollute that as well
22:41 < dwayneiam> Now using wayland + mangowm. So i feel wayland may be the problem
22:41 < broke> dwayneiam: please check dmesg logs
22:42 < ssm_> calloc() UAF happened I tried to :N a buffer on a split screen. I did this many times before so this alone is not the cause
22:43 < dwayneiam> broke: I have. Didn't see anything odd?
22:43 < broke> That's odd, if you don't have touchpad working, that would mean the kernel didn't initiate the touchpad
22:43 < broke> and it wouldn't show up on the dmesg log
22:44 < broke> (the bios not the kernel, I mean the kernel doesn't pickup the touchpad, I guess)
22:44 < oldlaptop> I think the X-versus-wayland thing sounds like a good lead.
22:44 < dwayneiam> broke: It works. Just not after hibernation
22:44 < broke> that somehow doesn't make sense.
22:44 < oldlaptop> (Another guess: what happens if you restart the Wayland session after hibernation?)
22:45 < broke> But maybe worth a misc@
22:45 < broke> I read that bugs@ are only for bugs that you have solveed
22:45 < broke> solved*
22:45 < dwayneiam> oldlaptop: I think. I just don't know if wayland puts logs somewhere
22:45 < oldlaptop> That is (to my understanding) not accurate. It's definitely for bugs you can provide detailed information on.
22:46 < oldlaptop> tech@ would (mostly) be for "bugs you have solved" (you'd be sending a mail to tech@ because your mail includes a diff that you think solves the bug)
22:46 < broke> they are not for problem reporting (unless you are including a good fix)
22:46 < broke> quoting
22:47 < broke> from https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html
22:47 < broke> > they are not for problem reporting (unless you are including a good fix)
22:48 < oldlaptop> That seems like an (arguable) documentation bug to me.
22:48 < oldlaptop> c.f. https://man.openbsd.org/sendbug "sendbug is used to submit *problem reports* (PRs) to the OpenBSD bugs database."
22:48 < oldlaptop> (and of course the way it actually does that is by sending mail to bugs@)
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22:49 < broke> Oh I see.
22:49 < broke> I guess that was just a documentation bug as you say
22:49 < fro> yeah the wording on the site is stupid
22:49 < broke> who made that XD
22:49 < broke> send 'em an email
22:49 < broke> maybe this is worth a bugs@ post itsefl
22:49 < oldlaptop> It might be appropriate to write a patch (against the www CVS tree) and mail it to tech@.
22:50 < broke> dwayneiam: also, why do you use wayland when xenodm exists?
22:51 < broke> or nvm, maybe it wasn't that reason
22:52 < dwayneiam> I don't use a display manager. That's what xenodm is
22:52 < broke> xenodm is not just a display manager
22:52 < broke> it is the reason Xorg is safe to use.
22:53 < broke> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq11.html
22:53 < oldlaptop> There's some limited support for starting it without xenodm post-https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/patches/6.4/common/001_xserver.patch.sig
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22:54 < broke> well startx exists
22:54 < broke> but you run as root
22:54 < oldlaptop> (but that erratum definitely got X-the-binary's setuid bit taken away)
22:55 < oldlaptop> broke: Prior to the whole stink around that erratum, it did, briefly. It cannot anymore, without xenodm.
22:55 < broke> I see
22:56 < oldlaptop> to my understanding that's also a little bit inartfully worded - where the startx command would have security implications, it nowadays simply doesn't work at all
22:56 < broke> Oh, I see.
22:56 < broke> I hadn't known that further
22:56 < broke> thanks
22:56 < oldlaptop> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20190917091236
22:57 < oldlaptop> (I recalled somewhat incorrectly - it is also possible for things to just not work as well, without xenodm, even on hardware where X without xenodm is possible.)
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23:04 < dwayneiam> man xenodm - Xenocara is OpenBSD version of Xorg
23:05 < dwayneiam> Does openbsd's wayland write logs somewhere?
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23:10 < oldlaptop> :|
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23:17 -!- martian67_ is now known as martian67
23:18 < broke> :|
23:25 < quinq> :|
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 10 00:00:15 2026